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Grow your business with podcasting – podcast interview with David Ralph of Join Up Dots

by | Dec 15, 2022 | 0 comments

Should you use a podcast to promote your online courses or business? David Ralph is the host of the successful “Join Up Dots” podcast. He is an online business expert and has created a number of profitable online courses. So what is the secret to success when it comes to podcasting and online business? David Ralph tells Mark Egan about his story.

Find out more about David at:




mark egan  00:00

Coming up on the knowledge industry podcast,


you got to matrix you’ve either got the audience, or you’ve got the income. And I would say now it’s more successful than it was before. But if we looked at the metrics, there was a time I was getting about 500,000 listeners a month, which was huge, but it was killing me. And I was getting all these listeners, but not making any money because I didn’t have any time to do anything with the people that was coming through to me.

mark egan  00:24

Should you start a podcast? And how would it fit into your business strategy? In this episode, I’ll be speaking with David Ralph, successful podcast that an entrepreneur to how did David go from being an ex corporate trainer to running a successful podcast called join up dots? Do you sell online courses or run live workshops?


Do you have expertise that can help people in life or


business? Are you even running an online training Empire from your kitchen table?

mark egan  00:49

Then you’re part of the knowledge industry, a fast growing industry, that


means that you can learn almost anything, and anyone can create a business around what’s between their ears.

mark egan  01:01

Welcome to the knowledge industry podcast with your host, Mark Egan. So David, thanks for joining me. How are you doing? You’re right.

David Ralph  01:10

I am very well, Mr. Egan. We’ve known each other for so many years. I remember the first time I saw you, you was like a small child. And you you’ve got a beard. Yeah, you’ve grown up into a fully grown man. You’re looking good, sir.

mark egan  01:24

Yeah, well, I think this is more of a kind of disheveled lockdown. Look, you know, if you’re listening to this, think Tom Hanks in that what was that one where you sit? Right. But anyway, I’m looking at your your bio, and thinking, where do you start with your story, because you’ve done all sorts of different things as far as like different chapters. But the one sort of thing I want to sort of start with this, you know, you now you know, successful online business, you know, various things, you’ve got very successful podcast, but used to working corporate training. And that changed pretty quickly. So tell me about what you used to do. And what was that kind of pivotal moment.


Let’s start with a pivotal moment that the pivotal moment was when I suddenly realized I was bored with the job, and I was entertaining myself. Now, if you’re a corporate trainer, what you need to do is make sure that the content is relevant, that the attendees are getting the most out of it, and you’re getting return of investment. But they’re the free things. So if somebody pays you to do a training course, you want people to change, learn, develop, and then the company gets interest. I started to throw in jokes, and throw in little stand up routines. And the the crowd were loving it. But I knew that I was on a slippery slope because I was pulling away from the content, I wasn’t doing what should be done. So that was the first dot that sort of led me into Hang on, something’s pulling me to move away from where I was. And then I had a boss that turned up and the boss was brilliant. And he said, Look, you can come into the office when you want, you can do your courses, you can you know, if I don’t see it for six weeks, it doesn’t matter. And so I was out in the garden in the afternoon, you know, I’ve been just wanting in doing two hours training and then leaving watching videos. And you know, it was brilliant. And then another boss took his place and said, I want you in your desk at eight o’clock in the morning, you’re not leaving till five o’clock, I want to see you every second of the day. And when you’ve had that freedom. And when it’s being pulled away from you, and you’re kind of bored, you’re looking for something else. And that’s when I put something in my ear called a headphone. And I listened to a podcast. And then I thought I listened to another one. And I listened to pre back to back. I’ve now been on all those podcasts. And I thought to myself, that’s for me, I’m going to be a podcaster a little bit. I know, sir, that it’s not just talking into a microphone, and having people listen to you and give you loads of money. That’s how it’s kind of alluded to. But as you know, there’s a there’s a bit that goes on behind the scenes.

mark egan  03:58

But I mean from that moment, so literally, you just thought I’m not having this. I’m leaving at what happened, then, you know, because I’ve done the same thing I’ve walked away from a very good job is that ones with the BBC. And I know there is a moment where it’s really exciting. And it’s really terrifying at the same time. What was that journey like for you? I didn’t


have the terrifying bits because I decided that what I was going to do is become a web developer. I thought I can build websites quite easy to do. People are paying me. I didn’t realize but actually I hated building websites when it was more than a hobby when it was something I was doing for myself. But when it was looking for clients and stuff, so I lasted three days on being a web developer, then I went into a depression because I thought, Christ, what have I done? You know, should I contact my old company and say, you know, I’ve made a mistake. I’ll come back to you. Fortunately for me, ego kicked in prior kicked in, and I just put my head down and thought, right, I need to make this work. And that’s one of the lessons I say to people you No, don’t ever run back, always look forward, because there’s always something out there. But you can do it. And it may not be what you want to do. But it will help you move forward. And ultimately, it’s paying the bills. So now I didn’t have that fear. I didn’t have that terror. But I did had that that position of, is this what my life’s gonna be like, I thought it was going to be exciting, isn’t this isn’t exciting. And I’m very much into that. And I’m still into that, like 1015 years down the line. If I think to myself, I’m getting bored with something. I’m very quick to start looking at it and thinking, Okay, it might be lucrative. But is it worth it? And then I sort of leave it behind. And sometimes you come back to it about three years later. And you think, actually, I wouldn’t mind doing that again, you know, that’s all right. But I need to keep that excitement. I like to, I’m like Tigger on crystal maps, I like to spring around and feel happy. I don’t know if that would work. I’m not big on crystal meth. So I don’t know if that would actually give you the bounce. I’m not

mark egan  06:01

sure that this bio was on my bio, make sure we had that kind of thing. But it’ll be okay. So you had that moment, he decided to sort of go forward. How quickly did the whole podcasting thing come about?


Very quickly, I decided from the moment I thought to myself, I could do this. I sent a voice message to a guy who I was listening to the podcast. And it was on tiny little laptop, it was a terrible audio. But I just kind of thought, I want to get my voice out there. I because it’s all about having these ideas in your head, but actually been doing it. You can sit there forever in a day. So I recorded this little voice message, sent it through to him. He even played it on his show. hugely exciting. But I was like on the internet. And I was listening to myself back when I sent an email to elton john saying, Come on my show Elton your love it. Of course, I didn’t get a response. Two seconds later, I sent another one. And the guy responded about 30 seconds afterwards. It was Saturday lunchtime. And I suddenly thought, Oh, my God, I’m doing this. I’ve now got a guest on my show. I’m doing so you’ve got the game

mark egan  07:05

before you actually kind of properly Yeah.


I didn’t know how to Yeah, I didn’t have a microphone, I didn’t have anything I just had started having the guests lined up. And I did 365 shows in the first year. Actually more than that, because I did some solo. So I do about 420 shows in the first year, until my audience say too much, you know, can you slow down, and they were trying to listen to every show, seven hours plus a week, you know, it was too much. And so we went three days a week after that. And we’ve been doing it ever since

mark egan  07:37

just help. I mean for people, if they should know join up dots. But if they haven’t, just what tell us a bit about what it’s about and kind of how successful it’s been.


It was very, very successful. There there was, it’s funny, you’ve got two metrics, you’ve either got the audience, or you’ve got the income. And I would say now it’s more successful than it was before. But if we looked at the metrics, there was a time I was getting about 500,000 listeners a month, which was huge, but it was killing me. And he was promoting and going on LinkedIn, and Facebook and all. And I was getting all these listeners but not making any money because I didn’t have any time to do anything with the people that was coming through to me. Now, I’ve slowed it down. And yeah, I suppose it’s successful, because it gives me a full time, it gives me a very nice living. And it’s on my terms. So I would say it’s, I would say it’s very, very successful mark, because I can do it when I want wherever I want. I don’t have to chase the money. It just kind of comes to me. But there wasn’t, there’s an audience.

mark egan  08:40

But there was that, you know, the the missing ingredient there, which a lot of people have is everybody’s got this idea. You know, we need to start a podcast, everyone is supposed to start a podcast. And you know, you said that it pays the bills. But how does it pay? Like how, how have you managed to monetize that?


Well, in the first start, I was doing anything that came along. So if somebody came along, I would say yeah, I could do that. So I remembered, you know, building websites, because I could do that. And then I did podcast training, which is how we connected and many, many years ago. And then I become one to one podcast coach. And then I realized I couldn’t be bothered to do that. And so I started doing business coaching. And then I couldn’t be bothered to do that. And so I went on to sort of online business coaching. And now there’s about five or six things that I do, that sort of fluctuates. mentorship is another one. Now you can’t get away unless you’re howard stern or Joe Rogan. You can’t get away in my view of having to do something behind the scenes of a podcast. You know, very few people will get an audience big enough to be able to make enough of sponsorship even though that’s the kind of utopia that is sort of given to you at the beginning. You just create this audience and then you monetize it. That’s a big mistake. So you’ve got to do stuff, but it doesn’t have to be stuck. You don’t want to do. But there was a lot of that in the early days. And I remember being, you know, I remember bending over for $50 me, you know, it was just anything that came along, I think, okay, that will pay my telephone bill for this month, I will do that. And little by little, it’s sort of a, it grew. Then I had my first six figure month. Now that wasn’t for me that was doing a comb promotion with a lady in America. And she had a big audience, and she asked me on, and we made something about 145,000 through this webinar for the month, and that that was my next dots. When it was suddenly my god, it does work, you know, that that’s like, not just a year’s money for most people that’s like three or four years money. And you can do it in that one go before then I think I was very much. Yeah, I believe you can do it. But there was that voice inside saying, you’ve got to go out to work, you’ve got to work hard. You can’t just do two hours a day, you know, you’ve got to slog it. That was the first time when I thought my god Oh, my God. And I’ve done that three times in the last eight years. But I don’t really foresee that.

mark egan  11:13

So I mean, because join up dots as a Steve Jobs quote, isn’t it? I mean, to just talk a little bit about that, when you’ve, you’ve done all these different things almost reinvented yourself moving in different directions. It kind of matches the whole kind of join up dots. It’s a journey, isn’t it?


Yeah, it does. Steve Jobs did a speech back in 2005. When he said to a group of Stanford graduates, you’ve got to trust, you got to have karma, you got to have faith, but you can’t see how you get to somewhere until you look back. And he called it connect the dots. And I was actually in my previous life as a corporate trainer. And this guy went off to the dentist, and he came back. And you know, when you go to the dentist, it’s the only time you read ladies magazines just kidding time and his Mary Claire, and I think it was in very clear. And he said this speech is brilliant. And so he gave me the written down speech. And I didn’t connect it with I’m gonna make a podcast and call it join up dots. I don’t actually remember how join up dots actually started. Is it almost a screw around me. But there was something in his a speech that resonated with me, right? Yeah, it’s all like planning stuff. But you don’t know how life is going to operate. And so why plan? Why don’t you just move through fluidly and see what happens. And as long as you do stuff every day, the dots will join up. And now I’ve interviewed two and a half 1000 people. And I think literally every single person goes, Yeah, I agree with that. He hit but now on the head. dots do join up. But you’ve got to get off your backside. And you’ve got to go off and do it. You know, it’s like I’ve known you for 60 years now. Yeah. And you have gone through many different changes. And like me, I know you’ve had times when you’ve queried and you’ve had doubts and stuff. And then there’s other times that you’re firing on all cylinders. And you’re still going, you’re still moving along. And as I said to a guy the other day, I’m now 51 years old. Yes, I know. It’s hard to believe. But I’m 51 years old, how many decisions I made in 51 years. Some brilliant, some terrible, some absolute lunacy. Some Why would I ever do that again, but I’m still moving forward. So no decision is a game changer. If you make a city, why don’t you just make another one and sort of get back on track. But you’ve got to keep on moving forward, keep progressing.

mark egan  13:36

And on the podcasting thing? What would because people must come in and ask for advice and say, Look, you know, maybe I’ve got a business, maybe I want to build my authority in a certain area. thinking of starting a podcast? What’s the main advice you would give to somebody who’s thinking of starting a podcast and maybe seeing your success? What would you say?


The thing I say all the time is don’t do it. And I always say to people don’t start a podcast. Unless and this is the caveat. You’ve actually got a business already. You know, I started the podcast and try to grow a business around the podcast, terribly difficult, because you’ve got nothing to hang on it. And you’ve got to have like an authority base, you’ve got to have an experience. So people go, I’m listening to mark Egan, oh, he really knows his stuff about video, I’ll check him out. Boom. So you’ve got to have a business first of all. Now, if you’ve got that, then go for it. But do it properly. Don’t listen to crappy ones. You know, I occasionally go over to iTunes. The audio is terrible. And people think they can just throw it out. And they get to about 30 episodes and then they do this big episode of why I’m stopping this podcast and what it means to you and I was saying he doesn’t mean anything to me because you’ve only been going 30 episodes, you know if you’ve done 1000 2000 3000 Why don’t you just say, this is part of my business, this is my strategy. This is another income producing this is my social media and keep it going. You know, it doesn’t have to be hard, but there’s got to be something attached to it. And it annoys me, Mark, it really does that people will wander around on Facebook, doing silly things, but they don’t go to something that is expanding every year, which is podcasting. And try to do it the best they possibly can. And try to make sure that the audio sounds as good as Ken Bruce on radio to, and not, you know, Jim Bruce, who’s sitting in his cupboard, on some tiny little smartphone, but Mark Egan has convinced him it’s really good audio to do stuff with, you know, get a proper mic and do it right now.

mark egan  15:46

I mean, one thing I would say if, if you haven’t heard, join up dots, you should go and listen to it. Because one thing I really like, and this is obviously I’m like interviewing you is almost like being the support act for Elvis or something, you know, it’s, but you’ve got a very conversational, like, almost sort of naughty sense of humor kind of style of interview. So what’s your thought process and what makes a good kind of interview, what makes engaging content on a podcast?


Do your preparation, you know, if you’re going to go onto a show, as a guest, listened to two or three of those shows, I’m blown away by people that come on my show. quite obvious, I haven’t listened to even an episode. So make sure that you’ve done your preparation, I always try my best to know the ins and outs of the person’s keynote story. Because otherwise, you’re going to get the same thing. Have fun, be engaging, and set a comfortable environment at the beginning. Now, I want to tell you on the show what I but I set a scene. And I actually say to the people, you know, you can imagine the output of a bullet and I tell them what to experience so that I can relax into it and know that I’m a safe pair of hands, you know, I’m not going to try to catch them out. And it’s my job to make them feel comfortable. And that’s one of the things that so you’ve got me very randomly, you’ve pushed me in. One of the things that annoys me where people go on the podcast hosts, you go to LinkedIn, everyone’s a podcast hosts. But I think being a host is about making the person as comfortable as possible. If you’re a host of a party, it’s about welcoming them at the door and bring them in and making sure that they’re, you know, they’re comfortable in their glasses or filled up, and you hear a lot of podcasts. They’re bored, the host is bored, you know? And if the host is bored, why should the guest raise their game. So I think you’ve really got to, you know, raise your game, show enthusiasm, and really listen, and try to make it an experience for that person that feels like love. You know, I actually literally fall in love with every single woman that I speak to, through the show, and probably 99% of the men as well, because there’s such a connection, because I’m trying my absolute best to really, really bring something out of them, which they haven’t had before. But they feel touched, you know. And once you get that touch, you’ve got a connection forever. And you know, one

mark egan  18:23

last thing, just some podcasts in more than a technical sense. If you know you said have a business, and it should be part of almost like doing your social media. So how do you best use the podcast? Maybe it’s the choice of guests the topics to actually kind of feel your business? It’s because you got to you can create engaging content that doesn’t actually go anywhere. Yeah. So how do you choose the topics?


It has to stick within the theme. Okay. Now, if somebody comes through and pitches to me and says, I would be a great guest note, you’re not coming on, okay? It’s not the you to tell me you’re going to be a great guest. And one of the things that I’ve learned over the years, if somebody comes through and says, I’m really amusing, not notice, nobody ever says they’re funny if they’re funny, but you know, I just know, they don’t need to, they just do it. So I’m very aware of who actually comes on the show. But you’ve got to have a hook. You’ve got to have a reason for somebody to listen and then come over to your website. Okay. So one of the things that I do on my join up doors is I realized that a lot of people were saying, I’d really like to start my own business, but I don’t know how to do it. So I created a seven part video course, showing them how I come up with business ideas, but they can just come across download free of choice. And I find, you know, people will come through to me two years later and say, Oh, I downloaded that two years ago. What do you think about these ideas and then they become sort of coaching clients and stuff. So there’s got to be a hook and there’s got to be a hook where it’s I I’ll show you how to do it. But I also need you to realize that it’s a lot harder than you think. Yeah, okay, everyone thinks they can podcast. But podcasting isn’t what you think getting the podcast out there, no problem, you can do that in 10 minutes. And as my dad used to say, when I started learning to drive, I can teach you to love drive in five minutes, it’s dealing with all the idiots on the road, that’s a different ballgame. And it’s true, if the roads were all empty, and you were the only car around, you wouldn’t have any problem driving, you could, you know, literally jump into a car. And that’s the same with podcasting, and anything, you’ve got to provide the authority. But you’ve also got to provide the authority that says, hang on, guys, I’ve been in it for a few years now. I know a few things, but no one else is telling you. That’s how you create the hook.

mark egan  20:49

And that’s it. I mean, that’s one thing, I think, I find that you talk about things. I mean, when I say the knowledge industry, so that you know, people doing online coaching, training, all that kind of thing. And it’s obviously this dream lifestyle that people have, they want to be sitting in the garden and you know, earning money whilst they sleep or this kind of thing. But when you look online, it seems that it’s easy. And nobody ever has any problems, you know, they kind of successfully run a few courses have a coaching business, you know, use their expertise. And then it just, no, they’ve reached the promised land. And that’s all good. Whereas you’re very open about the fact that actually it is more difficult. There are ups and downs. And, you know, it’s just there are just different challenges on that.


The very first business I created, I didn’t know anything about online business, I went over to blogspot, which was like a Google free website, I created a free website, I gave a free sort of PDF away. I didn’t know anything about any of this. And it just seemed logical to me. And very quickly, I was making 22 to 30 grand a month, okay. And it was a gambling site where I would whip a guy came through to me in an office and he said, oh, I’ve got this strategy that I worked out how to win sporting bets. And I wasn’t interested. And he started showing me and I thought, Oh, no, I might be interested in here. And yeah, I took this, and I fine tuned it and fine tuned it. And I very quickly put it online, and had 1000 people signing up at 30 pounds a month. And I was making a lot of money. My wife thought I was a genius. But actually, I hated it. Because I knew there was a possibility with gambling, but you could lose, you know, you can go both ways. So when I was doing the results, and it was all going through, and you were getting an eight out of 10 wins and stuff, it felt effortless. But then when he got a bit struggle, I was waking up every morning with a stomach ulcer really thinking, Oh, my God, you know, all these people have put their money in our you know, what should I do? So I had to close it. And but the thing that it taught me was at its core value, that’s the problem is not about being clever. It’s about providing value to people in a way that they understand what they’re getting. And I always say to people, if you controlled oxygen, you’d be a billionaire by lunchtime, you would just say 10 p a month, everybody would buy it, I wouldn’t even quibble because we need oxygen. And what we need to do in online business is actually thing, what do people really need? But what do they understand that they really need as well. And I think that’s one of the things where people struggle, we come up with these concepts, where actually they don’t touch into the 10 Social Triggers of marketing, where people go, that’s what I want. And it could be save money, save time, they will better against the Joneses, look better, you know, there’s about 10 of them. And once you bring that into your business, through join up dots, one of the things that has increased my income exponentially is the fact that I tell people, I don’t want to work with them. And people used to say, Oh, you can’t do that. And I can do that. Because it’s made it more valuable. Because when people do come through to me and I accept them, they’re more willing to do the work that better clients, we get better results. And it proves that I’m living the life that they want to live themselves. I’m living the Yeah, I’ve spent this morning sitting in the garden reading a book, really. I’ve spent it in a conference hall in solly hole networking with loads of people. It’s not the way I operate. I want how you operate. And once you’ve lived through that, I think that’s when it all comes together. So it’s it is easy. A online business is easy, but we overcomplicate it, we target the wrong people, or worse, we just make it too. too messy somehow with obscene and lead magnets and this going off and VAT going off and when it breaks down, you don’t know it’s happening. And then somebody says oh, well went over to your website and that link didn’t work. strip it all back. Basically input as possible, let it be totally clear what you’re offering to the world. And the right people will come your way. So a few things you can have almost seem to be like a mantra for you. One is simplicity, you know, cut to the chase, what’s this all

mark egan  25:12

really about what’s at its core. Now there’s consistency. You know, whether it’s your values, or ingesting lots and lots of podcasts, it’s the consistency. But you know, just, I’m conscious of time, that, you know, bringing things up to date. Now, you can keep me as long as you have, right. In that case, you know, salt that will go, I’ve got five, Josie crystal, the Josie for it. So I’ll never let you go. be bringing up to eat, you know, you, you’ve gone through you said and done podcasts and stuff about online business and all that kind of thing. And more recently, you’ve got interested in, you know, health, health and well being. And part of that seems to be the fact that if you do have one of these kinds of businesses, I mean, like right now, I’m standing up, you know, I used to sit down and do everything. Now I stand up, because I’m just conscious that I’m all day, you know, doing things and I’m training on my computer, and I’m sitting, it’s just not healthy. And so in a strange way, just mentally, sometimes with the interaction with other human beings in the flesh, or just physically, this can sometimes be quite an unhealthy industry, isn’t it? And so, you know, how have you found that, and then what are the kinds of things you’ve done to make sure that you have a successful business, but a successful lifestyle.


Few years ago, I had acute burnout, and it literally killed me, and it brought me to my knees. And it was the moment that I had to assess what was needed in my business and strip it back. And that’s one of the things I found, first of all, that when I stripped back the business, a lot bit wasn’t required, I could just sort of like do the bare minimum, that gave me a lead in to actually looking after myself. And you know, I’m now 51 years old, unfortunately, when you’re in your 30s, no issues voltage, you start aching a bit, and then by the time you get to 50. And so I’ve started cycling, I used to have two cars, we got rid of one car, and I jumped on a bike and, and cycled to where I want to go if I want to do it, I look after myself what I’m eating. And I’ve come across a lady who is into eating clean, so you eat, not processed foods, fresh vegetables, and, and fruit, and just sort of good stuff that falls off the tree. Really, that wasn’t as good for me. Because I lost so much weight. My wife is saying, Oh my God, look at you, you look like mo Pharrell on a diet, you need to, you need to sort yourself out. And so it’s trying to find that balance of what sits good review and not. But it gives you the energy that you didn’t realize that you were lacking. It’s one of those things that once you plug yourself back in, and like sleep, the other night, I went to bed at six o’clock at night, because I felt tired. I slept through to 630 the next morning. Now my kids laugh at me because I spent all my time asleep. Now, I’m genuinely like a, you know, an old cat, where that’s just napping all over the place. Because I see that as the huge benefit that I wasn’t given myself. And when people say to me, oh, I only have to operate on three hours a night. And I think you idiot, because you might be able to operate three hours a night at the moment, but down the line that’s going to catch up with you. And it caught up with me. So to answer your question, I drink five liters of water a day, I cycle, I spend more time sitting in the garden just thinking about things and letting thoughts fly and being in front of my computer. I sleep a lot. And yeah, I think I’m getting sexy about a moment. May I?

mark egan  28:37

Click? Obviously, and, you know, for somebody who, you know, you weren’t came from, you know, that corporate environment. You know, what it’s like, I mean, horses for courses, you know, some people like going into the office and having you know, that kind of routine. For me, I that was something I was kind of very keen to escape from, I could never imagine going back to that. But if someone was listening to this, and they were thinking, you know what, there are things I’ve got some expertise, I’ve got some knowledge, like, I could maybe teach something or help people with something or so I kind of liked the idea of you know, sitting in the back garden, reading the book and going to bed at six or whatever. What would be your advice to them in the sense that, you know, did you say go to bed, going to bed, hey, either way, with your lifestyle is probably the same thing. But you know, they’d like the sound of all this, that but that you kind of they come to you and they say look, what what would your advice be? What would you say?


I would say if you can do something in an office really, really well. Then take that as your starting point. But be aware that that’s your starting point. You’ve got to learn marketing, you’ve got to learn sales, you’ve got to learn the other thing. But if you’ve got the passion for it, you know, I still every now and again think to myself, it’d be quite nice to work in an office and see people and go in Now, but I think I could do two days. And then that would be enough. You know, I wouldn’t want that restriction. But everything out there is, is about providing value come back to that. And it doesn’t have to be big value. There’s a woman on Netflix called Marie Kondo, and she’s a Chinese woman. And she just basically teaches you to tidy up your drawers, you know, if I see it, and she says, Put all your clothes on the bed, and then they make a decision. And you think I could do that myself. But obviously, people aren’t doing it themselves. And she’s made millions. And so it sounds kind of things, but you think to yourself, there’s no such thing as a stupid idea. It’s just providing support and value to the right person. And once you do that, you’re you’re on the right road. But it then does come through the marketing and you know, the sales and the structure, all that kind of stuff is a totally different ballgame. So in summary, if you can find something that you can do really well in your office, and you know that other people want that same thing. Like story. I’m going to, I’m going to tell you a quick story. But in the long version, that’s how I like to do it. There was a girl that I used to work with, and we had a computer system. And it was some one of these sort of bespoke ones where the company was really small at the beginning. And then I stuck this bit on and I stuck that bit on, and the IT system was always ready to break down. And there was only this girl who knew how to sort of make it awkward. And a guy as well called Kenny, now this girl was very good at doing the coding. And we didn’t have any idea about coding. And so she just did this job she was earning was say 25 grand, okay, which was quite good money locally. She went off to lunch, I met one of her friends and her friends boss came along. And he said, Oh, Jim, okay. When you come back, we need to know about Bubba. And he said this coding thing. And she went, oh, sorry to jump in. But that’s quite easy anyway, is it? We’ve been trying to sort this out for ages. Can you come back later on? So anyhow, she comes back later on. And he says, right, we want to hire you. 70 grand, right? She went from like, 25 to 70 grand, she then goes back to our office and says to the people, right? I’m leaving, because they’ve offered me 70 grand, our managers apparently knew what she was worth to them. So said, okay, we go to six figures, she went back to the salary went from 25,000, to about 150,000, within two days, just because she found the right person who needed her value. Okay. And that’s the key thing, if you can do something really well in your company, there’s a good chance that somebody out there is wanting that same thing. So you don’t almost have to be entrepreneurial, you can be consultant, and allow that to be transitioned between different companies. And it’s kind of stepping stone, would you say Mark between sort of working for someone and entrepreneurship, that bit in the middle where actually businesses coming through through Upwork and freelancing and stuff, with the right value?

mark egan  33:06

Yeah, and one thing I did want to ask you, because I’ve won privilege of podcasting is you get as people speak to obviously good looking people like yourself, but you know, you get insights, you get people’s whole life experience, you know, summed up and you interviewed. So many people, you know, lots of very people, very successful businesses, people, you know, nutrition, all sorts of people. What would you say is the main thing you learned from having all of those conversations?


The main thing that I’ve learned is what I learned right at the very beginning, and ignored them because it was stupid advice. It was the kind of advice that I didn’t get until later on. And I used to say to people, right in the very beginning, you know, what should daylight and I used to say, Well, I’d get up, I get up about six o’clock, and I exercise for an hour. And then I write in my gratitude journal, and then I meditate for and I used to be, how did you get anything done? How do you get anything done, if you’re doing all that kind of stuff. Biggest thing that I’ve learned is the successful people do less work than anyone, because what they do is the right work. And so they have drilled down on that 5%. But they’re geniuses at and the 95%. But people like us, oh, I can just build a website, I can just do Facebook ads, I can just do that. Right? Don’t go anywhere near it. They get other people to do that. Because they just focus in on that 5% and the other thing they do is they don’t fill in blank time, just to be busy. You know, the amount of people have said to me, if I come in and I’ve got a meeting in the office and that meetings cancelled, I go straight home. I go play golf. I go they don’t just go one I’m here I do a load more work. They almost lead themselves charging up so that when they have to do That thing. They’re good for that thing, you know, and that’s one of the things I see with people podcasting, they think they can just squeeze it in, and they will be working and I get, oh, I can make it a three o’clock and I’ll just squeeze it in. It’s a real energy thing to do what you’re best at when you do it. And so I think that’s the things that I’ve learned, do less of everything, so that you can do the thing that you’re best at better than anyone. And you become you become like Marky,

mark egan  35:29

you say that, funnily enough, exactly what you were saying there, you know, people, you listen to podcasts, you read books, and they say, you know, start your morning with your own agenda, you know, meditate, make a list of things, you want to achieve all this kind of stuff. And yeah, I’ve been like you. Funnily enough, recently, I’ve tried to be a lot more productive with my day, actually, you kind of schedule things and actually slot times, if I’m going to be doing things try and do more of that. But like you, I’ve heard that for years, and just thought, yeah, they’re just saying that, surely they don’t really do that. But then everybody seems to say it, you know, plan your day, use your time better. And don’t waste your time doing things that you’re not very good at, by the outsource them or stop doing them. So fully behind your nose. This got


this got sent through to me, I get lots of books and prove it’s the wrong way around on

mark egan  36:13

my need to read on the title if somebody isn’t watching the video.


Yeah, it’s called memos from the head office. And it just turned up in my post, and guests come on the show, and they send me their books. And I will spend, you know, I will probably read that book by tomorrow. And I just look at it as there’s gold. And then I’ve got this book, The happiness plan, you can’t see that this guest is coming on the show. And I will spend more time reading books and actually working, because there’s ideas in there. And if you’re working, you’re not getting the ideas, you’re just getting work. And so I do spend a lot of time sitting back, watching YouTube videos, motivational speeches, Ted Talks, not connected to work. But it is it is it’s kind of fueling you up until you go, Ah, that’s a good idea. You know, jack Canfield, you know, the Chicken Soup for the Soul guy. He was on my show, and he was telling me about this woman who used to be a business guru. And he she said to him, you know, it’s good, it pays the money. But you know, I’d like to spend my time surfing. And he said, Well, why don’t you teach people to surf and she said, Oh, I’m not at that level. I’m not at that level to teach people to serve. And he said, there’s always a level you can find that people want. So anyhow, she goes down to whatever beach it is jumps on a surfboard. And she takes her dog river, and the dog jumps on the back of the surfboard, or on the front of surfboard, and she’s surfing and the dogs sort of standing there. And this guy says to her, Oh, I’d love to do that I will have to leave my dog at home, but you won’t go on the surfboard. And she said, Well, it will, you just need to teach it certain things. Bang, that was a business. And now she goes around the world, teaching people to serve with their dogs, you know. But if it wasn’t for her, stepping away from the work, and actually looking around and seeing what needs to be done, which you don’t in front of your computer, you only find the next stage to join up the dots by living life, then you’re not going to get there. So that’s what I say to people walk away from your computer, turn your computer off, you know, think of it as value being paid back to you. By walking in the countryside, going for a walk in the woods, you will gain far more than sitting there looking at messenger and Facebook and emails for eight hours a day, it’s not going to teach you how to look at

mark egan  38:36

the terms of use is charged yourself back up again. Because it’s like then also like, I would count as an introvert. So if I’m, you know, out, doing some things speaking in front of people, actually afterwards, I’m finding I’m quite exhausted. So that’s an important thing to kind of, you know, recharge your batteries. And yeah,


cuz I’m an introvert as well. And I didn’t hear people used to say I was an extrovert, but I didn’t realize that the extrovert and the introvert is where you get your power from. So I’m very much like when I’m on base, or doing a training course or something. I’m all into it. And then as soon as I finish, I don’t talk to me, you know, I will come Can we meet up with you now, I don’t want to meet up with you, you know, I need to have those days on my own, so that I can sort of come come back again, send up the bat signal and I’m there but you know, if I’m not ready for it, and that’s the introvert extrovert.

mark egan  39:28

Yeah, it’s a self awareness, isn’t it? If you were going to build a business and a lifestyle, you have to understand yourself, you know, I did the Myers Briggs test. Yes. Yeah. So I was infp. I was and the minute I sort of understood that it was like, Okay, now I understand why I’m tired at that point. Or why also why I love teaching. I you know why? I enjoy the fact that you know, if I know something, I can help other people. I get more pleasure out of that than maybe creating a TV program video in the backgrounds of video. And that being really successful in winning an award. I To get more of a buzz out of the lights going on, you’re somebody else that I’m going to teach you and helping. And obviously with this, you know, the COVID lockdowns, everything’s been tough at times. Other times have actually been okay. But one thing it has done, it’s thrown a lot of people online onto things like zoom. And I’ve been like to say, teaching people all over the world. And there’s been some huge advantages to that. What How do you see this kind of knowledge industry going forward? Do you think that this has kind of been a turning point, and now people understand how you can pretty much learn anything online? Or how people can earn a living, literally from from their home with a computer? Or do you think this was just of the moment, and things will pretty much go back to face to face training and conference rooms and all that kind of thing?


I think it will be, it will be another income stream. And because there’s value in it. And I think when you look at the entertainment industry, that they’ve now realized that they can do concerts, you know, one person playing guitar in New York, and another one playing the drums in America, yet, we all sort of rolling stones on that thing. And they was all in different rooms. So I think he’s just going to be different, but same. And when it comes to knowledge, you know, I remember in the old days, if I had to do my homework, I didn’t have Google, we had to go to the library and find it in a book and look it up. And there was no sort of cut and paste and stuff. So it’s always been learning, there’s always been that desire to find out more, in many ways now, because it’s so easy. I’ll just Google it. And you can just Google it, it’s made it less effective. Because there’s so many more idiots out there posting content on YouTube, I watch a lot of it. And some of it, I think, brilliant. And others because I’ve lived through it, I think, ah, I wish I could just jump on there and change that. Because, you know, that’s not good. But it’s good for that person. That’s where they are. But if you’re further down the line, you know, you’re gonna look at it and think to yourself, it’s not right. So I think it’s going to be amazing. I think it’s going to be terrible. I think it’s going to be great. I think it’s going to be fun. I think it’s going to be boring. I think it’s gonna have new people coming along, thinking that they’re recreating the wheel. But actually, we’ve seen the wheel before, I think there’s going to be people making a vast amount of money, I think there’s going to be people going broke. I don’t think there’s any difference mark, I really don’t, other than the cream always rises to the top. And through all that you will find new stars come out. And people that have been around forever in a day. And you’ve thought to yourself, they were guys, somebody is any special underpants in his bedroom at the moment, watching this video, who’s going to be the next billionaire. My son said there’s some guy who in United Kingdom he created an app or something. And he created it in like, June 2020 is now worth 4.6 billion. That’s probably hoppin was that the like, it’s

mark egan  42:51

like a video? I don’t know.


It might be that Yeah. And I thought, well, that shows you that for the right person with the right knowledge base at the right time by you know, you can do that. And that excites me. But somebody out there is in their power rangers underpants waiting for that idea to come through to them. But if they’re not allowing that idea to come through, because they’re so busy doing stuff, it’s just going to pass them. And

mark egan  43:17

final question, you’ve asked your guests about going back in giving advice to younger selves. If you at the age of 51 through all this, you know, ups and downs and pivoting and trying different things. If you could go back to yourself and don’t say buy Apple shares or anything like that. What what would be the kind of the wisdom that you would want to pass on to sum up, you know, from the knowledge and experience you’ve gained,


stay playful. And I think that my my son said to me last night, Dad, you’re becoming more weird. And my and my wife said, Yeah, you were certainly wasn’t that way I was doing some pirate impression or something, you know? And I said, No, it’s not. It’s just about I’m becoming more playful. And I think that I got too serious at a time where everything was about the next bill and everything was about the next 100,000 downloads and the next verse and next. And I think I missed the opportunity of enjoying myself and having fun. So and I would say that to everybody, you know, you’re here once unless somebody tells me otherwise. You’re only on this planet once. You know. Enjoy yourself, have fun. And if you spending too many days not having fun, think to yourself. Somebody is somebody is teaching a dog to surf. Somebody is you know, making a YouTube video that somebody you know, it’s there’s always ways to be more playful. So that’s what I would say to my younger self, stay stupid, stay fun. And as Steve Jobs said, stay foolish.

mark egan  44:51

Yeah, that’s, I love that stay fun. Because we can all take ourselves a bit too seriously. Sometimes, especially when times are difficult. You know, that’s often the way to get through it now. If


I saw your last video, I saw your last video and you were so serious

mark egan  45:04

through constructive feedback, which is correct. said to David that, um, sometimes when I’m on camera, and you know, even though I teach this stuff coming from a background in news, where often you’re taught, you know, you got to be serious, these are serious events, it’s almost become one of those habits that you have to kind of shake. Naturally in my normal life. I’m relatively smiley, I hope. But you know, I still have that thing when I’m on camera, where if I’m not concentrating, I go back into journalists mode, which is like, the No, everything’s terrible. And just to remind you, it’s probably going to be more terrible tomorrow. Yeah, I look, I’m glad I’ve got you, David, to remind me to just lighten up a bit. So appreciate that. Now, if somebody was smarter, you’re on live, somebody wants to go deeper. Learn more about you and some of the other projects you’re on to do with, you know, nutrition and everything. Where can they find out more about you?


As I say, just go to Google and type in join up dots free simple words in Damn, Google’s great because you can buy loads of things on there. And I appear so easy as that. Drop us a line and I have a chat with you. And yeah, just have fun enjoy as well. It’s been fun chatting to you, I

mark egan  46:13

have to say, and I have been like keeping an eye on the time because I’m conscious, you know, respect people’s time. And you know, they want to keep you on here for hours. But I suspect at some point in the future, I’m gonna have you back on because I’ve still got loads of things I’d like to ask but really appreciate your time really good insights. The things I love about you is that you think things through like he thinks and through them, you don’t try and put the spin that people want to hear. You actually kind of say, Okay, this is what my experience is. This is what I think these are the ups and the downs. And so then you go into it, have your eyes open, you know, if you’re wanting to create one of these businesses create a podcast, you’re coming at it from the right reasons and doing it for the right reason. So appreciate your time, buddy. Get back to your you know, your kids, your garden, your 55 different businesses and enjoying yourself but nice chatting to you and yeah, sure we’ll speak again soon. If you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a good review. Don’t forget to join the knowledge industry group on Facebook. And if you want to connect head to